Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211

03/29/2007 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS


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09:04:02 AM Start
09:07:49 AM Confirmation Hearing, Apoc: Elizabeth Hickerson
09:15:21 AM SB100
09:44:19 AM SB101
09:47:13 AM SB135|| HB171
10:28:12 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Confirmation Hearing: TELECONFERENCED
Elizabeth Johnston Hickerson - Anchorage
Alaska Public Offices Commission
*+ SB 135 ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
= SB 100 SUBSTANCE ABUSE/MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS
Moved CSSB 100(STA) Out of Committee
= SB 101 GUARDIANSHIP AND CONSERVATORS
Moved CSSB 101(STA) Out of Committee
               SB 135-ACCOMMODATE 90-DAY SESSION                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
[Comparison to HB 171 is included in the discussion.]                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  announced the consideration  of SB 135.  She noted                                                               
that there  is a comparison with  the companion bill, HB  171, in                                                               
the committee packet.  She also said there  were three amendments                                                               
passed in the House State Affairs committee this morning.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS noted that only two amendments passed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:47:13 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MCGUIRE referred  to the  side-by-side  comparison of  the                                                               
house and senate  bills and said Section 3 is  still in the house                                                               
bill, and  it adds a  section that the first  regular legislative                                                               
session  would start  on the  second  Monday in  January and  the                                                               
second session  on the second Monday  in February. Representative                                                               
Johnson offered that  language because with a late  start date in                                                               
an  election year,  there is  the potential  for the  governor to                                                               
call  a lame  duck session  of  people who  are only  technically                                                               
serving  because the  newly  elected members  have  not yet  been                                                               
sworn in.  If the newly  elected members aren't aligned  with the                                                               
governor, such  a situation  could upset  the public's  will. She                                                               
said she has no opinion.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:50:22 AM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR GREEN  said that  happened in  the third  special session                                                               
with  non-re-elected members  participating.  "This  makes it  so                                                               
difficult." She asked  if the bill changed the  reporting date of                                                               
the governor. That may solve the problem, she said.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said it is commiserate.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
RYNNIEVA  MOSS,  Staff  to   Representative  Jack  Coghill,  said                                                               
Amendment 2 that passed in  the house this morning addresses some                                                               
of  the reporting  dates. "I  hope this  matches your  bill." She                                                               
referred  to  Page 6,  line  18.  It addresses  the  supplemental                                                               
appropriations  and the  budget  amendments. The  first year  was                                                               
adjusted to allow 30 days  to submit the supplemental budget, and                                                               
it is 5 days in the second year.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:52:35 AM                                                                                                                    
JOHN BOUCHER, Office of Management  and Budget (OMB), said he has                                                               
been working  with the house  regarding the deadlines,  and there                                                               
is only  one OMB suggestion  that the  house has not  adopted. In                                                               
the odd-number years, OMB proposed  to have the amended budget by                                                               
the  45th  day,  and  the  house  has it  on  the  30th  day.  He                                                               
understands it would be half  way through the 90-day session, but                                                               
"in  terms of  the calendars  that are  set up  in the  odd year,                                                               
which would begin  in January, they provide adequate  time for us                                                               
to prepare a budget."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said there  have been lame  duck sessions  and the                                                               
earth didn't  fall off the axis.  The governor is still  sworn in                                                               
on December 4, so he or she  could still call a lame duck session                                                               
even  with the  house  language.  She asked  Mr.  Boucher if  the                                                               
staggered dates would cause OMB any difficulty.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:55:17 AM                                                                                                                    
MR. BOUCHER  said the  only real concern  is moving  the deadline                                                               
for the  final budget up with  a January start date,  because the                                                               
revenue forecast for  the current year won't be  quite as robust.                                                               
There may be a slightly  larger group of amendments the following                                                               
year, he surmised. But revenue  forecasts can change dramatically                                                               
based on the price  of oil, so the budget release  is timed to be                                                               
as close to  the end of the  fiscal year as possible.  It will be                                                               
best to  give the Department  of Revenue the advantage  of having                                                               
the time  to incorporate  the tax  information from  the previous                                                               
year into the spring forecast.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE asked  the rationale for starting  later instead of                                                               
the normal time. He has heard  that airport problems are worse in                                                               
January, but he is not sure  that is a reason to establish public                                                               
policy. With a  90-day session members may not  be leaving Juneau                                                               
as  often. There  may be  more special  sessions, which  may have                                                               
less impact  to families if they  happen in April or  May, rather                                                               
than June. He asked the reason for beginning the session later.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:58:05 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  the Senate  bill also  calls for  a February                                                               
start date, "but this is wide open; it's for us to decide."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS said it would be  nice to have a little more time                                                               
at home during the winter holidays.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN said  it had more to do with  deadlines for reports                                                               
and  the  governor's  budget.  It  reduces  pressure,  especially                                                               
during an election year, and  it will result in fewer substitutes                                                               
and amendments.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:59:27 AM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the staggered  start dates are  confusing. If                                                               
it is a citizen legislature and  members have jobs, it is nice to                                                               
have  a  predictable  schedule.  She said,  "I  don't  share  the                                                               
heightened degree  of paranoia that  something terrible  is going                                                               
to  happen, maybe  because I  lived through  it this  last year."                                                               
There  were only  12 people  that  were not  re-elected who  were                                                               
making decisions [during that lame duck special session].                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said the February date  is for the revenue forecast, and                                                               
the  January amendment  was added  when Representative  Gruenberg                                                               
noted that the constitution defines  the term of a representative                                                               
as  two years.  Starting  the  session on  the  second Monday  of                                                               
February, "the term of the  outgoing representatives would end on                                                               
January  15, so  technically you  would  have no  members of  the                                                               
house. Their  term has expired." Currently  that situation exists                                                               
for about eight days in  the gubernatorial election years, and it                                                               
hasn't been  a problem. "This  would only occur once,  because if                                                               
you  had  a  session  in  February, they  would  be  sworn-in  in                                                               
February, and the two-year term would match."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:02:11 AM                                                                                                                   
TAMARA COOK,  Director, Legislative Legal and  Research Services,                                                               
said Ms. Moss is correct. The  constitution says that the term of                                                               
office for  house members is two  years and four for  the senate,                                                               
so with a  staggered start date on  gubernatorial election years,                                                               
some members have a term that  expires early. She said this might                                                               
not be  a problem. As  an administrative matter,  the legislative                                                               
affairs  agency has  treated  legislators as  if  they remain  in                                                               
office  until their  successors are  sworn  in. It  has not  come                                                               
before  the court,  she  said.  If the  term  is moved  radically                                                               
backward,  then  there  is  a  bigger  gap  for  one  cycle.  The                                                               
convening date can  be changed by law. The  problems are inherent                                                               
in the  constitutional language,  which says that  the term  is a                                                               
set  period of  years,  but  it also  gives  the legislature  the                                                               
opportunity to change the beginning  date. "I'm inclined to think                                                               
that  a   court  would  somehow…construe  those   two  provisions                                                               
together to avoid  a situation where we had a  lot of empty seats                                                               
during a critical period."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:04:40 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  FRENCH recalled  testimony saying  the revenue  forecast                                                               
can be  moved. "There is  nothing fixed about the  world economic                                                               
cycle or other reporting agencies that  bring us the raw data for                                                               
preparing the revenue forecast. That  date can be pushed around,"                                                               
he said. The real problem is the  fiscal year is set at a certain                                                               
date.  He surmised  that the  revenue  folks would  like to  wait                                                               
until as  close as possible to  the beginning of the  fiscal year                                                               
before they give  the forecast. He said that makes  sense, but it                                                               
is July 1. So why not move up the revenue forecast?                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOUCHER  said the forecast  can be moved;  it is a  matter of                                                               
what  information  is available  at  the  time.  With a  new  tax                                                               
structure and other  new components, "you want to  have the best,                                                               
most  latest  information available,  and  I  believe that  those                                                               
would  be provided  for in  the annual  tax return."  Forecasting                                                               
should begin shortly after those are filed.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said that is in April.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH asked if he  is referring to the PPT [profit-based                                                               
petroleum  tax of  2006] law  or just  the general  list of  laws                                                               
passed each year.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOUCHER said  in this  case it  is the  PPT. Regarding  this                                                               
spring forecast,  the true-up payments  are coming in  around the                                                               
first of April, and that  is critical information for this fiscal                                                               
year  and next.  This is  unique, and  once comfort  is developed                                                               
with the PPT tax structure, it won't be so important.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:07:32 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  the state  is so  dependent on  oil and  gas                                                               
revenue, and  the filing deadline is  in April. That is  when the                                                               
legislature gets the most accurate information.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH said the PPT question  will go away soon. He asked                                                               
if there are  other April reports, because the  PPT payments come                                                               
every month.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOUCHER said  he believes that there is a  true-up at the end                                                               
of the year.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  said that on  April 2  there will be  the true-up                                                               
from  the transition  to the  PPT, and  it is  a one-time  event.                                                               
"We're  looking for  a billion  dollars to  enter the  state bank                                                               
account on Monday," but it is a one-time event.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:09:00 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEVENS asked  if the law states  that legislators remain                                                               
in office until the successors are in.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS  said the only  law is  the constitution that  defines a                                                               
term as two years.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS suggested  clarifying that a person  is in office                                                               
until a successor is sworn in.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said that is a  great idea and she  asked for that                                                               
amendment from legal services.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said she presumes that  would be limited to  the period                                                               
at the end of  a session. "You would not want  a person to remain                                                               
in office until a successor is  appointed by the governor in case                                                               
of vacancies that  occur mid-term." If someone  resigns, there is                                                               
a system for filling vacancies.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:11:15 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR MCGUIRE said yes, and she  asked for a draft for both bills                                                               
in that narrow context, because it  will likely be the house bill                                                               
that moves forward.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE said  the  ability of  committees  to take  action                                                               
while not in regular session is not addressed in the bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said  in the House State Affairs  Committee this morning                                                               
there was  an amendment that  a person could  vote telephonically                                                               
and move a  bill out of committee, but it  failed. The committees                                                               
can now  meet in  the interim  but cannot move  a bill.  The bill                                                               
would sit in  limbo because it needs to be  read across the floor                                                               
before going to the next committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said both standing  and special committees  are allowed                                                               
under  the uniform  rules to  meet  and hold  hearings on  bills.                                                               
There is  nothing prohibiting a  committee from reporting  a bill                                                               
from committee, but  there is no mechanism to  deliver the report                                                               
to the  Chief Clerk  or Senate Secretary.  If the  matter remains                                                               
unaddressed  in the  bill, then  there  is the  problem that  the                                                               
uniform rules require  the physical presence at the  site where a                                                               
committee is held  for a vote to report a  bill from committee. A                                                               
member attending by  teleconference cannot vote, and  that may be                                                               
a greater problem in the interim when members are scattered.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:14:46 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR  MCGUIRE said  the legislature  would have  to call  itself                                                               
back in for technical sessions.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS   asked  why   Amendment  3   by  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg did not pass because it addresses those issues.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MOSS said  the members  want eye-to-eye  contact with  other                                                               
members.  A legislator  may call  in from  home and  have someone                                                               
passing notes  and providing information or  influence that other                                                               
members would not have access to or have knowledge of.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:17:03 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEVENS said he understands  that, but he asked about the                                                               
issue of reporting the bill from committee.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said there was no  concern about that, it was just about                                                               
having  the same  information  and access  to  people. "The  only                                                               
thing this amendment  really does is it allows  a telephonic vote                                                               
to move the bill out of committee."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR BUNDE said this is  interesting that in the internet age,                                                               
eye contact is needed. Members  have wanted to participate from a                                                               
hospital  and haven't  been allowed  to. "How  many times  on the                                                               
floor would  a fellow  legislator or  a staff  member give  you a                                                               
note?" The  members in the front  might not be privy  to that, he                                                               
stated.  If  the  90-day  session is  to  save  money,  requiring                                                               
flights and per diem of far-flung members needs more discussion.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:19:36 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  FRENCH asked  about the  requirement of  reading a  bill                                                               
across the floor  before moving it to the next  committee, and if                                                               
that is in the constitution or in the uniform rules.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. MOSS said it is in the uniform rules.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. COOK  said the constitution  requires three readings,  but it                                                               
is silent with  regard to moving the bill to  the next committee.                                                               
The bill is  not in second reading until it  appears on the floor                                                               
having  been   calendared.  It  is  public   policy  because  the                                                               
legislature  can control  its own  internal procedure,  including                                                               
the  referral  of  bills  to  committees  and  the  accepting  of                                                               
reports. If a committee report  travels from one committee to the                                                               
next without  going to the floor,  there is no opportunity  for a                                                               
member to object to that report. That will be lost, she stated.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR FRENCH  said he has never  seen that happen in  his short                                                               
experience. He asked,  "Are we recreating the  wheel?" The voters                                                               
said they  wanted a 90-day  session. What does  it mean to  do an                                                               
enormous  amount of  interim work?  Did the  voters not  want the                                                               
members  in  Juneau  for  very  long,  did  they  want  them  not                                                               
legislating for  very long, or  did they  want to save  money? He                                                               
said there will be pressure to get the work done in 90 days.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:22:02 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEVENS  said the  public said a  90-day session,  and we                                                               
have to  find a way to  cut a quarter  out of the time  spent. He                                                               
said there must  be a way to allow committees  to operate [in the                                                               
interim],  or  else the  legislature  is  setting itself  up  for                                                               
failure. Serious consideration  needs to be given  to allow bills                                                               
to move between committees.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE  said the  committee may  want to  incorporate that                                                               
into the bill.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE said  lobbyists would  love the  provision that  a                                                               
bill dies  if it doesn't  move out  of its originating  house the                                                               
first year because  "it will give them another  pressure point to                                                               
really focus on."  The voters may want less  legislation. If that                                                               
can't be done, perhaps the number of bills should be limited.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:24:38 AM                                                                                                                   
MS.  MOSS said  that  provision  of a  bill  dying  in the  first                                                               
session died quickly.  There has been discussion  on limiting the                                                               
number of bills a legislator could file.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said there  is a lot  of opposition  to limiting                                                               
the number of  bills, but the next step is  requiring bills to be                                                               
introduced  prior to  session. That  would reduce  the number  of                                                               
bills, he said. Perhaps only  committee bills could be introduced                                                               
after the beginning of session.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said  there is a version of that  after the 24-hour                                                               
rule goes into effect.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS  MOSS said  that  is  in the  second  session  only, and  that                                                               
deadline may be about the 45th day.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:26:26 AM                                                                                                                   
MS. COOK said  she thinks the personal bill deadline  is the 35th                                                               
day after convening the second session.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCGUIRE said there is some precedence for it.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BUNDE  said Senator  Steven's  idea  would increase  the                                                               
influence of  the committee  chair. He expects  there could  be a                                                               
lot of slippage.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCGUIRE  announced  she  would hold  SB  135  for  further                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  

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